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wrestlingmom

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9 Total Posts		 POINT QUESTION
Thread Created On 2/14/2010 10:18:00 AM

WOULD LIKE TO KNOW THE DESCRIPTION OF A ESCAPE

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/14/2010 10:21:00 AM

I would like to know the way to get 1 point for an escape.  I trully thought I knew, but yesterday at Regionals there were many different points given out, that to me and other people, did not look like an escape. I thought you had to be free of the wrestler before the point was to be given out.  Could someone please let me know.  Thank you.

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/14/2010 12:32:00 PM

The thing that is so controversial about escapes is it is often a judgement call for the ref. To me, the definition of an escape is when i wrestler has freed himself from the other wrestle AND is able to protect himself at the same time.



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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/14/2010 1:10:00 PM

The best source of information would be get on Washington Wrestling Report and the forum and ask the question.  A guy on there who answers alot of these is just outstanding.  His moniker is "by the book".  Now as far as the reffing, the interpretation of these rules varies.  The difference in how "back points" was called at regionals was just pathetic and the 2 older guys need to retire or at least run around and look, they are just plain lazy.  The younger black haired ref is one of the best refs in this area in my opinion, he does the best job of any referee in this part of the state IMO.

you'll learn alot, but it may not clear things up.  Kind of like the saying "Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom". 


Papa

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/14/2010 2:15:00 PM

haha i have to agree with gooses. the refs were horrible at the regional tournament. except maybe one of two. they were just lazy and made horrible calls!

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/14/2010 3:25:00 PM

 "Loss of control".   And yes, no matter what definition you read it is still a judgement call.  There are strong reasons why you often see older, non-athletic gentlemen doing the thankless job of "Wrestling Referee"! Younger referees, who are mostly recruited by coaches, either do not want to do it or they have tried it and become the victims of crowd abuse.   Those who referee do so because they like the sport and have been former wrestlers themselves.  

Quite often there are severe shortages of referees.  Those remaining travel very long distances on weeknights only to wake up the next "early" morning to attend their day jobs.

When I consider the above hardships I like to see consistency on the part of our "Zebra friends of Wrestling" and am glad we have them in this sport that gets such precious little attention.

 


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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/15/2010 1:19:00 PM

Best explanation I ever heard on the process a ref goes through to make this judgement came from Jim Nielsen when he was cutting his teeth doing junior high CTL matches ten years ago or so. He explained to me that it was less about "Loss of Control" to him than "Has the wrestler worked to a truly neutral position?". He went on to define that as a position where either wrestler could start the match from with no advantage to either one. If the bottom wrestler had worked to such a position, he earned an escape point from Big Jim. What i liked so much about this standard is that helped eliminate the situation you see so often where a kid is VERY near, truly immanent, to gaining a reversal as time runs out.......ref cannot bring himself to award the reversal, so he offers up a consolation "escape" call to bail himself out of the tough call using "loss of control" rational. Way too often this is used in situations where a neutral position has not been earned and the right call is either a reversal or no change(no points).

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/15/2010 2:01:00 PM

TC - i think the issue, even more than the defintion, is the seeming lack of consistency from either ref to ref or the same ref minute to minute. Coaches, wrestlers and fans alike can eventually deal with poor officiating and should understand that if you leave the match close enough to have poor calls or non calls make the difference, you have not done your job as a wrestler. In a sport where interpretation and judgment on awarding of points is always in the mix, we as coaches, fans, or wrestlers need to realize that the end of the day these guys are human and therefore prone to mistakes. The hard part to swallow, however, is the high stakes that go along with calls that make or break a match. Add in all the previous groundwork that was laid for that 6 minute opportunity for performance, and you will find an equation that often yields animosity between stripe and non stripe wearers. Sprinkle on a little arrogance, add a dash of coaches getting too much in their ear, a pinch of self doubt, and you find a thankless job that is really pretty hard to get right. Don't get me wrong, I am not a stripe sympathizer by any stretch. They NEED to get the job done right. Tough job, tough sport, tough way to make a little extra cash. I suppose that they love the sport just like we do, they just find a different way of giving back. 

the Dude

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/15/2010 5:16:00 PM

I remember this issue came up  a few years ago. if a bottom wrestler stands up and is facing an opponent, then they step out of bounds, that is an escape

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/24/2010 7:16:00 PM

Question? Can anyone explain how the team points system works?  I don't have a problem with the final scores at the state tournament but I just couldn't figure out how the point system goes, and would like to know how to figure it out.

thanks

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/25/2010 1:47:00 AM

Team scoring is based on three criteria: Advancement points, Bonus points, and Placement points.

Advancement points are accrued when a wrestler wins a match.  In the championship bracket (winners' side), advancement points are worth two team points; in the consolation bracket (losers' side) advancement points are worth one.  This is why it is such an advantage to stay in the winners' side as long as possible.  Note that NO advancement points are earned in the last matches of the tournament (1st & 2nd, 3rd & 4th, etc), as the wrestlers have nowhere to advance.

Bonus points are earned based on how a wrestler wins a match.  Falls, forfeits, defaults, and disqualifications all earn two bonus team points.  Technical falls (wins by 15 or more points), earn 1.5 bonus points, and major decisions (wins by 8-14 points) result in one team point.  A simple decision (a match won by seven points or less) earns NO bonus points.  All matches in the tournament are eligible for bonus points, and the aforementioned values are the same in both the championship and consolation brackets.

Placement points are generated based on where a wrestler finishes in the tournament, and these values vary, depending on the size of the bracket, or more specifically, how many places are scored.  In the eight-man bracket used by the State in our B division which scores four places, placement points are as follows:
1:  14 points
2:  10
3:    7
4:    4

Tournaments scoring six or eight places (like the 1A through 4A 16-man brackets used at State) are:
1:  16
2:  12
3:    9
4:    7
5:    5
6:    3
7:    2
8:    1

Placement points are calculated as soon as they are earned, rather than at the conclusion of the tournament.  For example, in our eight-man brackets at state, the winners of the two championship semifinal matches earned their 2nd place points immediately following their respective matches (10 each), even though they didn't wrestle the finals until the following day.  The champion of the bracket earned an additional 4 points (totaling 14) after the finals victory.

Dual team scoring is entirely different, with all weight classes scoring exactly the same.  Since each weight class only has one match in a dual, no advancement points go into effect.

Falls, forfeits, defaults, and DQ's earn 6 dual team points.
Tech Falls (15 + point match wins) earn 5.
Major decisions (8-14 point advantage) earn 4.
Simple decisions (7<) are worth 3.

With 14 weight classes in a dual, the maximum possible point accumulation is 84 points (assuming all matches are by pin, forfeit, etc.).

In both tournament and dual meet situations, team points may be deducted (penalized) by the referee for a host of reasons.

Hope this is helpful to you Paula.  All of this information can be found in the NFHS wrestling rule book in the scoring section, pages 44-48 in the 2009-10 edition.

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/25/2010 7:17:00 AM

Cuc - 1:47 am ?!- Do you ever sleep man? Your boy had a good tournament. well done as Dad too!

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RE: POINT QUESTION
Posted 2/25/2010 8:31:00 AM

thanks for the information, cucumber, good explaination now we understand how it works
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