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MeridixID:
bonehead

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B LEGEND
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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 9:07:00 AM

Positives
1.       I saw two great basketball games for $10 (Colton girls vs. ACH girls and the Rosalia boy vs. ACH boys)
2.       I saw the Waitsburg camel. (No I didn’t stop at the brewery, there is a camel on the south side of town right off of highway 12)
3.       Walla Walla High School was a good venue to watch basketball
4.       When my oldest was a freshman we went up to the 2B tournament on Saturday. He had just got back from playing in the 1B tournament in Yakima. He looked at me and said that he wanted to play here and this year, as a senior, he will be able to.
 
 
Negatives
1.       Teams split up; Colton would have had a monster crowd if the boys would not have been in Wenatchee.
2.       Extra travel. If we have to travel anyways have an east-west crossover 1 day tourney in Yakima. Make it single elimination #1’s against #2’s.  Have the 1B’s play on Friday and the 2B’s play on Saturday.
 
 
 
On another note, I think that the number of people attending the tournament from the Spokane area will increase because of the addition of the 1B’s. These people want to see Hoosiers, they want to see the small communities they see on the weather map on the news, they want to see the schools that have 50 or 60 in their top three grades.


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sportsed

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 9:21:00 AM

Hopefully before the end of the year there were be a book with the complete history of both the boys and girls B tournaments published.  Stand by.  It will be super. 



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2Bornot2B

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 9:58:00 AM

sportsed...who, when and where?


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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 10:00:00 AM

Untill that book comes out, just go to Spokane and listen to some of the old timers stories. I heard a few last year. Pretty interesting

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sportsed

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 10:18:00 AM

In the late '70's a book was published called Tournament Fever that covered all the boys and girls tournaments until that time.  The man that wrote that one, Jim Stinson, is working on a much bigger and better one that hopefully will be ready for sale late this year.  Don't worry, when it is ready the B community and followers will absolutely know about it.  Definitely worth the wait.

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 10:30:00 AM

Thanks sports. I was more curious to see if Stinson was expanding his book or if a new author was taking a stab at it.


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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 1:26:00 PM

Bonehead - That brewery in Waitsburg is AWESOME!

I think Selkirk's heading west and just pounding those teams in the 1B girls' bracket illustrated a major flaw at that level. I still think seeding the teams or having a state-soccer-draw would resolve competition problems, if not logistical ones.



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High Five

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 5:54:00 PM

Found a couple of posts from another site that has some interesting points...

List of Grievances to the WIAA ... please add to it ... I'll send it   
I am compiling a list of grievances to send to the WIAA. Please let me know what to add and/or what to emphasise. I will add actual examples as they happen, so they can put a name to who was actually hurt. I will not send it in until state is over. If the WIAA rectifies a mistake I will more than happily delete it. If they add to the list, I will gladly (yet unhappily) add it. Please help me but please send you own letters to the WIAA and the executive board, as well as cc'ing your school principal and AD.


1. Wholesale changes weren't necessary. You didn't need to reinvent the wheel the way you did just to make up $150,000. There were many other options.

2. The restructuring of state went through too quickly without looking at the options or the drawbacks (despite the fact that you said you thought long and hard about it ... well maybe you THOUGHT long and hard about it, but you obviously didn't speak to the right people ... such as Business leaders, potential sponsors, chamber of commerce, ADs, WIBCA, etc).

3. Confusion. Brackets were being revised in late January! ADs didn't have answers to the families questions because the WIAA didn't have answers or weren't sharing them with ADs.

4. Extra transportation and accommodation costs for cash-strapped schools and unnecessary work for ADs. Two weeks of state at two locations in five days is harder to schedule and more expensive than one week at one location in 4 days. Especially for schools sending both boys and girls teams to different sites.

5. Communities and families having to decide which team to support? Does grandpa and grandma watch Jack or watch Jill, because they can't watch both. One team gets the band and the cheerleaders and the fans while the team further away gets to hear crickets "chirp".

6. The traditional "on to state" chants were missed. Fans didn't want to chant "on to regionals" and although the WIAA wanted fans to call regionals state, it just didn't feel that way to fans.

7. Athletes also missed the Sundome/Tacomadome/Spokane Arena environment the first round of the games. Playing on those courts in those large venues are priceless. Worth much more than $150,000.

8. Only 8 teams eventually got to experience one of those 3 great state arenas and the true feeling of state as opposed to 16.

9. Only 6 teams got to bring home a trophy to sit in a trophy case long past the players have left this life. Not 8.

10. The loss of double elimination at state will eventually eliminate an exceptional team from placing when eventually two top teams meet in the first round of "real state" which will happen.

11. Regional sites were too far away from many schools. Although the WIAA tried to keep teams from travelling across the mountains, it was impossible to avoid and the WIAA should've known this.

12. Meanwhile other schools would've gladly volunteered to travel over mountain passes as it often meant an easier path to state as the four regional sites never seemed to have equal talent pools. And while in the past that too was the case where one bracket was stronger than another, single elimination now made being put in a tough regional "deadly". The WIAA said that now the "real state" will be more exciting because not only is it single elimination, the top 8 teams will be even better. But that's not true because inferior teams are still advancing in place of better teams because regional sites aren't of equal talent pools.

13. When the WIAA had the opportunity to alter game times allowing Lakeside (9 mile falls) fans to watch their boys play at Eisenhower and girls play at West Valley Yakima, they failed, making the game times just 30 minutes apart. Ilwaco fans were allowed to have their boys and girls game times tweaked to play after each other. Why choose to benefit one school and not the other? This Lakeside example is truly disgusting. Many parents had to make tough choices about which child to watch. But making the decision often came down to which regional site was closer to home. These poor Lakeside parents had to decide which child to watch while the son and daughter played in the same TOWN! Shame on the WIAA!



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High Five

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 5:55:00 PM

DEAR WIAA : FROM THE KIDS FOR THE KIDS   
Dear WIAA
For years we have read about how your most important priority was "for kids". From the "the kids of 1A basketball" we ask the following

* Was it for "the kids" that you placed the Lakeside boys and girls in the same town , playing at the same time so all the fans could watch both of them play? Oops!
* Was it for the Kids that the Zillah girls play in Spokane in front of 25 screaming fans while their boys play back in Yakima in front of a packed house?
* Was it for "the kids" the Cascade Christian girls travel all the way across the mountains to play while their District champion boys play in Snohomish? The moms and dads and coaches with children playing in both of those games want to know.
*Was it for "the kids" that the Onalaska girls and Lynden Christian boys will play in front of 50 faithful fans without cheerleaders or a band and get that "STATE TOURNAMENT FEELING" while the Ony boys team and Lynden Christian girls teams play in front of huge crowds cheering them on?
*Was it for "the kids" that parents, grandparents and fans are forced to chose a loyalty to a team instead of traveling to the Sundome to watch all the teams from their town and district play?
Dear WIAA: where are " the kids" in your off the cuff money hungry decisions that have stifled the once pure and wonderful state tournament experience so many of us have witnessed over the years? We have been asked to make lemonade out of this rotten mess of lemons that ferments daily with your lack of vision to even attempt to work with Yakima or the coaches association for creative ideas to make things work "for kids".

We will drink the lemonade WIAA but it is tough to choke down for "the kids"!


Cougar88 is right. We are all anticipating this to be a disaster, but we will get more results with letters and emails after the tournament than before. I am as upset about the new format as anyone, but in order to get results, lets focus our energy where and when it will be the most listened to. Telling the WIAA our experiences (additional travel costs, having to choose between daughters and sons regional games, our bands, cheerleaders and fans being split up or not present at all, or for 1/2 of the people still posting, their team not making it to yakima when the should have.)

This is what we need to share with the WIAA. Sadly, this might not affect their decision at all. What we can hope for is that revenue wise, this is a colossal failure. That the loss of a 16 team tournament, the added travel of regionals, and the overall disillusionment of the fans will result in less net revenue than they were bringing in before the change. Here are the 2009 revenue and expenses for the state tournaments from the WIAA's IRS filings:

Basketball: Revenues- $996,285 Expenses- $618,881 Net - $377,404
Football: Revenues- $450,161 Expenses- $125,687 Net - $324,474
Wrestling: Revenues- $286,480 Expenses- $186,562 Net - $99,918
Volleyball: Revenues- $86,288 Expenses- $85,060 Net - $1,228
Other St. Tourneys: Rev.- $487,497 Expenses- $443,456 Net - $44,041
Other Programs: Rev. - $941,019 Expenses - $643,394 Net - $297,695

Looking at the numbers, I'm not seeing where basketball is the issue. Basketball and football are clearly the cash cow. I don't care what the expenses are, if the sport makes you over $370,000, it's doing fine. I could go on for a while, but I think the numbers speak for themselves. In an effort to make our point, lets boycott the state tournament. Oh I forgot, half of us already are going to be.



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MeridixID:
oldBfan

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B Silver Ball
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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/27/2011 7:07:00 PM

High Five Thanks for saying what everyone was thinking. It is wrong to split small town fans up like that.

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MeridixID:
High Five

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 12:54:00 AM

There are many more negative things to say about the regional format but won't elaborate now.  I will say that I shouldn't complain too much about the $65 it cost two of us to attend two games in two days (close by). I feel bad for teams, parents, and others  who traveled so far and spent so much only to be "one and done"  (Asotin boys and Entiat girls for example). 





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MeridixID:
wvhs78

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 8:47:00 AM

Hey folks there's an idea....

If you don't like the current format, tell the WIAA sponsors (DFOF, Les Schwab, State FArm) that you won't buy there products ...that'll get Mr. Colbrese's attention

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MeridixID:
bisbest

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 11:09:00 AM

Thanks HighFive for saying just a portion of what is wrong with this new format.
Your point about "the kids" has been my point all along when I have complained.
I think  Valleys comment about the sponsers is perfect. We need to hit them where it hurts.
Flood them with some kind of a campaign that shows it's not just a few malcontents. It is almost everybody involved.
 I seriously have begged people that are  in position to know what's what, with WIAA,  to tell me how this could be a good thing. I got the answer " hometown advantages".  And it was said in an apologetic tone.
Truly a bunch of crap.
In small schools in particular to split not only fans up, but teams up, when the boys and girls are uselly their best support systems.
We are all supposed to be about the kids, those of us connected with WIAA, and this has never been about what is good for the kids.
I'm on board to help out if someone takes the lead here.
It is supposed to be about the kids and....there is no way that State B in Spokane doesn't make money. Probably made some dough in Yakima too. The big schools don't pay for themselves.I've been to the bigger school tourneys in TAcoma and key arena......tombs.
 DOn't let WIAA take away one of the last smalltown beautiful things, that remain.

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wvhs78

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 4:21:00 PM

Not 1/2B but an interesting perspective from the Olympian:

http://www.theolympian.com/2011/02/28/1559914/time-for-hoosiers-moment-but-not.html

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High Five

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 8:33:00 PM

Good article WVHS78 however I disagree with the single elimination concept.  I have seen many teams lose the first game and feel good abouit themselves when they come back to win a trophy, especially 3rd through 5th.  I am sure there are those with very high expectations that don't feel good about a lower place but would feel worse being "one and done".


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KendallE23

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 2/28/2011 9:42:00 PM

 CONS:
  1. Less teams are able to experience the "state" experience- everyone is only in high school for 4 years and going to state is a kind of experience that is talked about for years and years afterwards 
  2. Travel costs are greatly increased because teams are now having to pay for two weekends worth of food, travel, and lodging
  3. The smaller divisions were still bringing in revenue even though the bigger divisions weren't- so keep the change for the bigger divisions but let the smaller schools switch back to the old format


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MeridixID:
parent2b

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 3/1/2011 9:36:00 AM

 We would like the WIAA to know that many of us believe the format used this year was UNACCEPTABLE in far too many ways. (2B Girls Basketball Team)

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 3/4/2011 10:12:00 AM

I'm not naive enough to think the WIAA will alter the format, so with that in mind I offer these thoughts:

1) Get rid of the charade and call the first weekend what it is -- Regionals.  It's nowhere near a "state" experience.  It's so different that I can't even describe the gulf between this year's "state" experience for Asotin's boys and girls teams and last year's.

2) Find a way for a school's boys and girls teams to play in the same location.  A super regional site on each side of the mountains would do this.   

3) Consider Oregon's approach.  24 teams, #1 seeds get a bye.  #2 vs. #3 on Tuesday or Wednesday at #2.  Winner plays at #1 on Friday or Saturday.  Would have a better chance of getting the 8 best teams to Spokane this way.

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MeridixID:
col-pul

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 3/4/2011 10:52:00 AM

I thought they should have expanded the tournament to 32 teams and had true regionals. If need be get rid of districts and hold it over 3 weekends, though I don't think there'd be that need except maybe tri-districts in the upper classifications. Seed it by league or district standings  with 1s playing 4s and 2s playing 3s.  Have North South reagions in the west and east-central in the east. Use the extra games/ticket sales to get a college or smaller arena venue and hold regionals there every year to build tradition. Say Eastern in the east, Central in the center, Western in the north and something in Olympia for the south. 

In 2B each of those regions would have pretty close to the same number of teams but if down the road need be this or that team could be shifted N-S in the West or E-C in the East. 

If Reagionals had been set up as actual regionals instead of some bastardised version of NCAA reagionals most all the issues of where and when teams play would not have happened. Also total attendence would be higher because you've doubled the schools and kept teams closer to home. But you think this is bad, look at 1A where some 2 seeds get double elim and some don't, where most of the schools that advance both boys and girls played far away from each other, where travel distances got crazy and where one 2 seed got homecourt advantage. 


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MeridixID:
1b/4aBB

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RE: Feed Back on Regional Tournament
Posted 3/4/2011 10:57:00 PM

how about  no districts only 4 regions 8to 16 teams each  .you  lose your out  (single elmi.)2 teams each region  to state  . Simple and cheap.
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